the_wanlorn | Classism and Mixtapes

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originally posted on: livejournal

Classism and Mixtapes

RAGE

I never realized how angry rich little bows complaining about being affect a lot by Obama's tax plans makes me. I thought I was going to jump across the room and fucking strangle this kid. there's got to be a good comparison here, maybe involving food pantries. Like, do you shop at food pantries if you're rich because you deserve cheaper food for your hard work?

I don't know. It just makes me really fucking angry.

I'm sorry (except I'm really not), but if you're parents make a lot more than 250K, then your quality of life isn't going to be diminished by a rise in taxes similar to what the lower middle class and poor have been going through during the Bush administration.

And fuck, if my family could live comfortably on a teacher's salary with three kids, then you can just shut the fuck up you whiny little brat.

Then they were talking about social mobility and how the rich little boy's parents used to be poor but worked their way up to where they were now and thus it does not matter that they are in the vast minority because the ability exists, period. And some kid was all "I mean, you might not be able to blah blah, but I don't know...". aka "lol whiny poor people stfu and just work harder".

At which point "DO YOU SERIOUSLY-" escaped me before I could shut myself up. The teacher was all "Wait Erin was saying...." to which I replied ">:( NO >:(" and went back to stewing silently.

(I do more harm than good when arguing about class in the United States because I get so fucking angry that privileged pieces of shit like that exist that I can't articulate exactly why they're pieces of shit and end up just flailing in anger a lot. KIND OF LIKE I'M DOING NOW.)

So, hey, let's talk about this internet. And by talk, I mean let me tell you a fact. That fact is that social mobility in the USA is embarrassingly low. We're the land of opportunity that doesn't have any opportunities for a large portion of the population.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

I'm trying to find the exact percentage that social mobility in the US has fallen in the past forty years, but it's eluding me for the moment. In any case, it has fallen and continues to do so, especially under the current economy.

Australia has better social mobility than the United States.

Technically, I should be one of the mice onmeme who gets involved and loud and furious during classwank.

But I'm not.

Because classwank makes me so fucking angry I can't even think straight. Never mind argue on the internet. I can hardly breathe because I am so horrified that people blinded by their privilege like that exist on my meme.

In conclusion, ANGRY.

In happier news (SEE HOW I LEFT THIS OUTSIDE THE CUT SO EVERYONE COULD SEE IT WITHOUT READING MY EPIC RAGE? YEAH, THAT WAS GOOD OF ME),

such_heights made an amazing election mix, Oh Yes We Can: An Election '08 Mix.

I seriously have it on repeat and whenever "Yes We Can" by Will.I.Am (AND OBAMA) comes on, I start grinning my ass off. I fucking love this mix, and I love

such_heights for making it, and I love LJ for bringing it to me.

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LOL Y HALO THAR ME. Plus the classwank mice all tend to be a little bit clueless and all I want to do is go *PATS* but that's mean.

Fiscal conservatism makes me a lot angier than social :(

I mean, it's kind of cute when the wank is just starting and you get to explain to them tons of shit and feel like you're educating people!

AND THEN IT JUST... OH GOD I FUCKING HATE IT SO MUCH.

But, yeah. I don't understand fiscal conservatism. I mean, what do these people think pays for shit like roads?

Sadly, that's true for all wanks.

I mean, I get the reasons why people are social conservatives. I don't like it or agree with it, but I get it.

Whereas fiscal conservatism just makes me go

Because other people don't matter, man. OTHER PEOPLE DO NOT MATTER, IT IS ALL ABOUT ME ME ME.

Ummmm, 'fiscal conservative' doesn't always mean "Hurr hurr, time to fuck the poor actively!" But.

In theory, no. In reality, that's what usually ends up happening.

I think a lot of people think of the part of fiscal conservatism where it's about less government spending and actually balancing our budget, but the thing is that under our fiscally conservative presidents like both Bush's and the highly touted fiscally conservative Reagan? THE NATIONAL DEBT WENT UP. Reagan tripled it (and while part of it was government expansion, part of it was the fact that he cut the highest tax bracket from 70% to 28%). The only budget surplus in my lifetime has been under Clinton. And the lower taxes part has me all kinds of als;h;alsjfd;lakcdf because people who are barely making it on a day to day basis? Really shouldn't have to shoulder as much of the debt if they're having trouble putting food on the table, much less paying for good health insurance or better education opportunities or other important things, as compared to people who own several homes and several cars and obviously have been the few, the lucky that benefit from the way our broken system works, and who have those benefits and privileges at the expense of others.

Ummm, and apparently I am having problems with ranting today, but my point was MANY PEOPLE DON'T THINK ABOUT IT. BUT SOME OF THEM REALLY ARE SELFISH FUCKS. >_

I agree with this comment! Bush's idea of conservative economic polic reminds me of that old quote about capitalism for the poor and socialism for the rich.

I am so horrified that people blinded by their privilege like that exist on my meme.

I get like that during a couple of the wanks- not class, but pretty touchy subjects. GRRRRRRRRRR >:( >:(

Yeah, I know that Epon gets like that about racewank. We all have our touchy issues, and mine happens to be class (because it directly effects me. lol moast self-centered, ino).

Nah, mine are pretty self-centered as well. Ih all fatty!self hatred!shifts :(

ihall fatty!hatred shifts in general. I couldn't believe that one that we had a couple weeks ago. WTAF MEME WE ARE MOSTLY FATTIES WHY DO YOU ALL HATE YOURSELVES FOR IT >:(

YYYYYY Race!shifts are pretty bad, but I've sort of learned to roll with it or GTFO.

This is embarrasing, but IH chan!shifts, because someone is going to mention that people who were abused as kids can read it to feel better and someone's going to go 'NAH' and I want to kill everyone. Just no no no no you do not do that to their experiences it's almost inhumane from meme.

- in b4 lol butthurt paedophile

LOL BUTTHURT PAEDOPHILE ♥

I hold so many unpopular opinions about chan that I just GTFO when chan!shifts start. MY LIFE; SO HARD.

That is wise D:

I almost always end up being one of the FatAcceptance!mice telling people they're pretty even if they're fat.

YYYYYY. But if you start wanking over those, you end up like that poor fucker last night going on about Zionism. She had some great points but they got completely buried under the angy.

I haven't been on meme for a couple of weeks, but I can imagine :(

...IN FAIRNESS I DID LEAVE EVENTUALLY SO I COULD GO AND GET MY ANGER OUT IN A MORE PRODUCTIVE WAY.

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So Becky, tell me about Zionism!

YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HOW MAD I WAS, IT WAS ONE OF THOSE 'I NEED TO LEAVE NOW BEFORE I START DELETING THINGS IN A FIT OF RAGE' MOMENTS.

SO A NORMAL DAY ON MEME FOR YOU, THEN?

LOLOLOLLOLOLOLLOLOLLOLOLOL OH BB. You were right! But the way you argued just made us people want to argue back.

It wasn't just me thought! I was pretty much all the comments that were like 'you're a fucking dumb fuckhead and you should die'

oh god why is my life so hard. jesus.

Edited 2008-11-06 16:08 (UTC)

I want to talk about this, but everything that comes out of my mouth sounds lol privileged whitey. So I apologize in advance if I come off that way.

I grew up in a poor family that was absolutely crippled by debt, because that was the only way they could afford to better our family's situation. After my parents divorced, things got waaaay worse for all of us. Eventually my personal situation got better, but that was only because my grandmother moved in with us and used her pension to pay our bills and keep a roof over our head while my dad worked to further his career and pay off the debts he and my mother racked up.

I think because of everything my father has been through, and because of how hard he's worked for the last 25 years at his job, and because of how much he and my grandmother had to sacrifice, he's terrified that someone wants to take it all away from him. He just wants his American Dream, the one he has slaved to earn, and he feels like Obama wants to commandeer it all. No, he doesn't want to share his wealth with everyone in the country. It's his. He worked for it.

So, I can understand his point of view. He grew up barefoot in the holler, he doesn't want to go back there. I remember what it was like to not have food to eat, I remember the collection agencies calling all day, every day. I don't ever want to go back there, either, but I can't neglect to acknowledge I still had a ton of advantages that many other people around me did not. Yeah, I'm where I am today because I worked hard, and I maybe have a little bit of talent, but I think A LOT of it is luck and networking. I know how lucky I am. I feel guilty about having had a little bit of success when people even in my immediate family are in such a bad way.

I don't know. I fail at explaining myself. I just think that there exists a whole generation of people that have advantages because of sacrifices their parents made, they don't know what it feels like to have nothing, and their parents feel the same way my dad does, so it's like all they can do is repeat their parents' mantra without having any of the real experience behind it. If that makes sense. Heh. I'm sure the previous generation had the same shit said about them, too.

No, I see where you're coming from.

I can understand your dad's sentiments, but at the same time I don't agree with them at all. Partly because I don't believe that Obama is going to take so much money out in taxes that people are going to have to sell their homes and cars and go back to living the lifestyle they grew up in. Hell, I don't even believe that people who do make a shitton of money will be forced to pay so much in taxes that they'll be forced to live a lifestyle they've come to view as ~below~ them.

I mean, I grew up in a similar situation, and through my own inability to manage money (which is the whole thing where I'm so used to "No we can't afford it" and not being able to have that now that I can theoretically pay cash for it, I buy it. I AM LIKE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN JAY AND YOU). And I'm sure that this is one of the reasons why my parents are all >:O HIGHER TAXES BOO even though at our richest time we were making 100K (in a 4-person household with another adult son) which, for once in our lives, put us firmly in the middle class. And hey, now the only reason I'm not hanging out at poverty level is that I have student loans.

But the thing is exactly what you said. We are lucky. There are people out there who aren't or can't be because of the pathetic state of disability benefits and veteran care in this nation. And just because we've managed to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps means that now we're in a position to help people who were in our position.

And part of the reason why I get so angry at people who don't understand that is that they also seem not to understand that wealth is fleeting. Especially in this economy. Especially with the job shortage. You could fall again so fucking quickly it keeps me up at night sometimes, and then who's going to help you? Especially if the only people who can possibly understand your situation are going "Fuck you, it's my money."

I don't agree with Dad, either, and I think he's epically overgeneralizing when he says things like, "OBAMA WANTS TO TAKE AWAY MY RETIREMENT." Personally, I think the American Dream as it stands is a joke. It's manufactured by the media and marketed to us by corporations. An iPod in every pocket! An SUV in every driveway! A Starbucks on every street corner! Dude, all I care about is that I have my husband, and a roof over our heads, and food in our bellies. I can do without all the bells and whistles that I used to think were so important.

I totally understand that wealth is fleeting. It makes me lose sleep at night, too. Especially having screwed up as royally as I have in the past, buying into consumerism. I hope I wasn't too late to reverse the damage Jay and I had done to our finances. I could be losing my job tomorrow, with no new job prospects in sight, not even in retail or manufacturing. If things got really bad, I could lose my home like my mom did, even though we bought something well within our means. I'm making considerably less here than I was at my last job, and a bit less than I was making at the job before that one. My income has actually shrunk like crazy since Bush took office. I don't know if it's related, or just dumb luck.

I'd like to think that someone would help us if things got really bad, but it seems like the government, whether it's Democrats or Republicans, are only interested in helping out the corporations that sell us bullshit, who DO NOT pass along the wealth. For example, the bank bailout was supposed to make banks feel better about giving out loans. Those banks are planning to hold onto the funds instead, or use them to buy up other troubled banks' assets. Way to help "Main Street," guys.

BY THE WAY, I CAN'T STAND THE "MAIN STREET" BUZZWORD. I HAAAAAAATE IT LIKE I HATE THE WORD MAVERICK.

I still can't understand him, because shouldn't he be happy to help other people out of the hole he was in now that he can afford to?

I'm not apologizing for him, nor am I agreeing with his personal feelings on this subject. I'm the socialist black sheep of the family. I'm just going to try to explain what he feels and why.

He is considered middle class in this country. He has been taking almost half his net income and maxing out contributions for his retirement accounts for the last 20 years, because he didn't start saving for retirement until he was in his 30s (much like me, woe). He is trying to better his own current situation by the time he retires. He wants to move to the islands and start a small business that caters to tourists. To do this, he needs to have a lot of money saved. He is afraid that if taxes are raised considerably this dream of his will never be realized, and that makes him resentful. Is his dream wrong? Should he not aspire to do something that he loves to do with the rest of his life? The whole point of him doing without, and making his children do without, was so he could realize this dream and also leave something for his children when he's gone.

The short answer is, yes, he wants to help other people. He doesn't have a problem paying taxes that go toward education and infrastructure. He has a two daughters and two grandchildren on WIC and food stamps, which is subsidized by the state, so he understands the need for those types of programs. He's bailed out his children, his stepchildren, he helped me go to college. He would not hesitate to help me again if I needed it and he was in a position to do so. He's not a selfish person as far as that's concerned. I think he has a problem with feeling as if what he has rightfully earned is being given to people who may not be working as hard as he is, and he has no control over them like he has over his children.

I've actually had some nice conversations with him leading up to the election about his fears, and about being socially responsible. I think he bought into a lot of the fear mongering that the Republicans employed throughout the campaign. He feels like socialized medicine will bankrupt the country, but doesn't take into consideration that even with the good insurance his company provides for him, one illness or disease could completely bankrupt him.

I don't know. I think part of the problem is I don't have any answers for many of the points he brings up, other than WELL, DAD, IT'S MORE OR LESS WORKING IN THE UK, SO WHATEVER MAN. To which he replies, YEAH, WELL, THEY'RE ALSO PAYING 60% OF THEIR INCOME IN TAXES, COULD YOU LIVE ON 40% OF YOUR GROSS INCOME? And then I'm like

I JUST HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH MY DAD LAST NIGHT. WITH A NICE BONUS MIX OF GAY PEOPLE DON'T DESERVE MARRIAGE OR CHILDREN BECAUSE GOD SAYS SO, BUT FOR SOME REASON THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO ATHEISTS OR NOT CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS BECAUSE AT LEAST THEY ARE STRAIGHT AS GOD INTENDED AND YES, SINGLE WOMEN SHOULDN'T DO SPERM DONATION AT WHICH POINT I POINTED OUT THAT THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE HIS ONLY ROUTE TO GRANDPARENTHOOD BECAUSE MY SISTER SURE AS FUCK DOESN'T WANT CHILDREN, MY BROTHER IS TAKING A VERY LONG ROUTE TO FINISHING EDUCATION AND ALWAYS CHOOSES HIS FRIENDS OVER HIS GIRLFRIENDS (LIKE SERIOUSLY, I JUST WISH HE WOULD DATE ONE OF THEM AT THIS POINT AND GET OVER HIS SELF-LOATHING OF "SEXUALITY IS A CHOICE BECAUSE I SORT OF HAVE ONE AND SO I'M CHOOSING TO BE STRAIGHT EVEN THOUGH IT DOESN'T WORK FOR ME") AND THEN HE WAS ALL SUPER AWKWARD OF "SOMEDAY YOU WILL FIND THE RIGHT MAN" AT WHICH POINT I DID A VERY CYNICAL LOL IN MY HEAD AND BARELY RESTRAINED MYSELF FROM COMING OUT AND BEING DISOWNED BECAUSE WE HAVE ENOUGH ISSUES AS IT IS WITHOUT HIM TALKING ABOUT HOW NOW HE DOESN'T HAVE EVEN ONE CHILD GOING TO HEAVEN AND THEN HE CHANGED THE SUBJECT RIGHT BACK TO WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS BETTER BUT ACTUALLY MUCH WORSE IN WHICH HE WENT ON ABOUT HOW HE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR GAY PEOPLE TO MARRY (BECAUSE HE PAYS TAXES AND OH NOES GAY PEOPLE WOULD GET AN UNFAIR TAX BREAK, WHICH MEANS HE WOULD HAVE TO 'SHOULDER MORE OF THE BURDEN') OR FOR BUSINESSES (BY WHICH HE MEANT HIS PRACTICE) TO PAY FOR SPOUSE'S HEALTHCARE AND ESPECIALLY NOT FOR GAY PEOPLE'S HEALTHCARE, AT WHICH POINT WE GOT ONTO HEALTHCARE AGAIN AND HOW I THINK IT'S A RIGHT GUARANTEED IN THE CONSTITUTION (LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS--NOTE WHICH IS FIRST THERE) AND HE THINKS HE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR POOR PEOPLE "WHO WASTE ALL THEIR MONEY ON CIGARETTES AND BEER AND SIT AND WATCH TV" (NEVER MIND THAT HE DRINKS AND WATCHES TVS AND 'WASTES' HOURS PLAYING VIDEO GAMES AND HIS PARENTS PAID FOR HIS UNIVERSITY AND MED SCHOOL AND WERE THERE EVERY STEP OF THE WAY ENCOURAGING HIM TO THE POINT THAT HE ACTUALLY LIVED AT HOME IN UNI AND WASN'T EXACTLY STARTING AT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD) AT WHICH POINT I STARTED FOAMING AT THE MOUTH A LITTLE AND HE TOOK A CAUTIOUS LOOK AT ME AND SAID MAYBE IT WAS LATE ENOUGH FOR HIM TO HEAD HOME.

. . . SORRY FOR ALL THE CAPSLOCK RANTING, BUT BETTER YOU WHO WOULD UNDERSTAND MY RAGE AT ALL THAT IS WRONG WITH THAT THAN TO THE REST OF MY FRIENDSLIST, WHO WOULD JUST GO "o__o;;;;" AND FLEE.

BUT SERIOUSLY. I BROUGHT UP ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO GO BANKRUPT TRYING TO PAY FOR MEDICAL EMERGENCIES AND HE WAS ALL "BUT THEY HAD ALL THAT TIME THEY WEREN'T PAYING FOR HEALTHCARE, THEY JUST LOST THEIR GAMBLE" AND COMPLETELY IGNORED THAT THESE ARE PEOPLE *WHO HAVE INSURANCE* AND WENT OVER THEIR INSURANCE CAP, WHICH YOU THINK HE WOULD KNOW HAPPENS CONSIDERING ONE HE'S A DOCTOR AND TWO THAT HAPPENED WITH MY LITTLE SISTER'S CANCER TREATMENTS AND IF WE WERE A MIDDLE CLASS FAMILY OR "POOR" LIKE HE TRIED TO CLAIM WHEN WE WERE GROWING UP AND HE WANTED TO SPEND HIS MONEY BUYING A PLANE INSTEAD OF TAKING US OUT PLACES OUR FAMILY WOULD HAVE FUCKING LOST OUR HOUSE. JUST, RAGE RAGE RAGE.

ahem. deep breaths.

Uh, so I may have suppressed some of this anger and not realized just how much this bothered me until I saw your post, to which I can only say "word" (or, um, all the previous raging) and though I know I grew up privileged, I hope someone would have smacked me if I'd acted like a little shit entitled to that privilege.

Feel free to screen this if you don't want my rage cluttering up your comments. AND THANK YOU IF YOU MADE IT THROUGH THAT. *feels only marginally better*

I think I'm going to go check out that election mix now *_*

OH MY GOD YOUR DAD I WANT TO PUNCH YOUR DAD WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUUCK I'm so sorry he's your dad, bb D: D: D: ♥

And don't worry, I spend most of my day communicating in capslock to my friends. :D:

Don't get me wrong, I love my father. But he makes it really, really damn difficult sometimes, especially when most of the time he brings up all of the things he knows makes me incredibly angry and has the temerity to tell me that we should be able to discuss things academically and without emotion (LOL NEVER BEEN AN ACADEMIC, OBVIOUSLY, OR HE'D KNOW HE WAS SENDING MIXED SIGNALS) because none of these things directly impact him and he just assumes they don't and will never impact me (like personally, I'm a little selfish, because with all of my pre-existing conditions, I'm kind of fucked for health insurance, and so would my sister if not for being married to someone who receives awesome benefits, and so it's something directly impacts me in two years when I'm old enough they take me off my father's, but at the same time I still think that anyone who thinks everyone doesn't have the same right to life are assholes) and when I bring up in response to that just the fact that some of my very closest, best friends have been queer and OF COURSE I am going to be offended at the idea that they're subhuman because of that (skirting around my own sexuality and queerness, because that's a conversation for when I'm ready to break my dad's heart instead of him constantly breaking mine, and considering I used to be more daddy's little girl, that's really hard to do, and I'm not ready to never be able to talk to him again without it being a constant issue between us on both sides, not just mine), then he has the nerve to be all "But I have gay friends! And I love them, too, in a very Christian way! Hate the sin, not the sinner blahblahblah I am not really a bigot~" and I want to be like: "NEWSFLASH: THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. THEY PROBABLY HATE YOU. AND FOR GOOD REASONS."

Um, yeah, and I'm still in a very ranting mood I guess. idk. It's just getting harder and harder, and I don't know how I'm going to deal with this if I don't end up moving halfway across the country for grad school. :/

Oh bb. ♥ Feel free to rant to me any time.

every wank mentioned in these comments usually has me at the head of it.

:D:

I THINK THAT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT YOU.

BUT I DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT WHAT.

I think part of the problem is articulation. We need to take the position that money is a system, not a means of exchange. I wouldn't *want* to live in a society where money was merely a means of exchange, because that society would be inequitable.

It feels kind of like that's the society we're living in now, if I'm understanding you right.

Fiscal conservatives see the "system" part as not being fundamental, but rather being an exception to the rule, required for things like armies and possibly roads and education, except when those crazy liberals abuse the exception for more.

I don't think the idea that money is not, at its heart, simply a means of exchange has been well-articulated in the public sphere, and it's certainly not easily inferred by looking at our economy, especially as it pertains to globalization.

Aww, thanks for the link! Mostly commenting, though, because damn but that rant is awesome. I mean, rage-inducing, but in a sort of cathartic way, because seriously.

You're welcome! And thank you. :D:

People have a simplistic understanding of taxation. They get hung up on ideas of equality and don't think much beyond the surface numbers.

1. Income taxes in the US are progressive. Sales taxes are regressive. End result? People in different tax brackets still tend to pay the same proportion of their income in taxes.

2. The fact that the rich are paying more in taxes doesn't mean that they're being treated unequally before the law. Money is little more than a calculation of buying power. For a person making $20k a year, an extra 5% tax means that their kids are eating ramen and bunny bread that's passed its sell-by date, means that they're probably limited to either community college or huge loans. For a person making $250k a year, an extra 5% tax means that maybe they can't afford that fourth car. Those things are NOT equal, it's true, but it's not the rich who are getting the shit end of the stick.

3. Yes, tax systems can redistribute wealth. But what DOESN'T redistribute wealth? When the workers create profits and the owners/stockholders keep them, that's redistribution of wealth. When baby-boomers finance an economic boom with high spending and low taxes, then pass the debt off to the next generation, that's redistribution of wealth. When the government gives subsidies to farmers or tax breaks to Exxon even spends money on infrastructure, IT'S ALL REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH. If the concept means more to you than propaganda and political bludgeon, you're going to have to develop a slightly more nuanced position than "Socialism bad!"

Edited 2008-11-07 00:37 (UTC)

WORD.

khanks.

This was an excellent rant. If only we lived in a world where it would be taken like absolute fact it is. (Sure, poor people have this magical ability to make themselves unpoor and they just choose not to because WHAT HOW CAN YOU EVEN THINK THAT.)

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Classism and Mixtapes

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Re: my teal deer, let me show you it

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