the_wanlorn | Civil War

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Current Location: Baltimore, MD
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originally posted on: livejournal

Civil War

Wow, I'd forgotten just how full of rage the Civil War arc makes me. I'm just... completely and totally full up with anger right now, disproportionately so considering it's just a friggin' comic book.

Even just reading the New Avengers issues (WHICH IS WHAT I JUST DID BTW) makes me angry. I MEAN WTF. Although the Luke Cage issue was kind of amazing and I loved it. lol sucker for people banding together against something that's Wrong even if the thing that's Wrong is the police.

BUT SERIOUSLY. I AM GOING TO GO TO BED ANGRY ABOUT THIS. ANGRY.

ETA:

BUT THEN I SEE THIS PANEL AND EVERYTHING'S OKAY AGAIN

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IT'S SO STUPID AND POINTLESS. The entire premise is stupid. Like, leaving aside everything else that's wrong with it, first of all, haven't we done registration already? Like, FIVE MILLION TIMES? Second of all, maybe you should specify exactly what registration entails if you're going to make it an earth-shattering issue in this universe. Is it everyone who puts on a costume? Everyone with any kind of powers, whether they fight crime or not? Will everyone who has powers and gets registered be forced to fight crime for the government? It's just such a stupid fucking cop-out not to specify exactly what this means.

Actually, the more I read of the Skrull arc the more I am thinking it would be totally fucking awesome and brilliant and would not make me angry anymore if it were all a Skrull plot. I MEAN, IMAGINE THAT. EVERYTHING WOULD SUDDENLY MAKE SENSE.

I like Civil War. 8( I also side with Tony, if push came to shove. Though I think the point of the whole thing was that they both took it way too far.

Actually, I'm interested to hear your opinions on Civil War. I literally have two friends who are also into Marvel, and things get lonely. :c

YOU HAVE JUST BECOME ONE OF MY SWORN ENEMIES. JESUS CHRIST WHAT KIND OF FUCKING SOCIOPATH WOULD SIDE WITH TONY.

HERE IS WHAT I SAY.

Man, see, I was gonna write a whole fucking entry on this, because I had heard so much of the supposed Iron Dickery in Civil War, and then I read it, and I'm all, .....

NOW I AM GOING TO MAKE THIS BOLD-FACED CLAIM

Any of those who have tasted of the cup of unwanted responsibility sympathize with Tony's plight. ...Ugh, I just woke up and as soon as I read this comment, I threw myself into replying with all the passion I feel when I white-knight Tony Stark, my thoughts are not in order. But seriously, when I was reading Civil War, every time Tony made a point, I shrugged and said, "That's very reasonable". Cap was the one who came off as a child clinging to something he claimed was "freedom", but was really an unwillingness to adapt to changing times. Which, I feel, has always been one of Captain America's tragic flaws.

The only thing I think Tony should possibly apologize for is the Thor cloning. Other than that, man. Every other thing people point out and say OMG TONY OMGGG is, like. :/ to me. Every thing he did, he had to do. Sure, he had to imprison them in another fucking dimension. They're superheroes. What's a normal prison gonna do. No, he did not "kill Cap". He handed him over to authorities just like everyone else, because if he gave him special treatment, it'd undermine everything he'd worked for. And to the response of "If he's such a futurist, he would have known Cap would get killed". To this response I give a resounding OMG FUCK YOU DUDE. STEVE'S TONY BEST FRIEND OMGGGG.

Seriously, I am on Christmas Break. I am going to spend a day organizing an essay on why all of LJ, really, most of it is LJ, are sissy STUPID PANTS for not understanding how much of a rock and a hard place Tony was getting squished between.

I'm sorry that you seem to think that when the government is doing something wrong it's better to go along with it and do damage control than, you know, stand up and say THIS IS WRONG.

WTF is wrong with you?

But it wasn't wrong. The reason there is a government is to protect the people. That's its most basic function. And the majority of the American people needed protecting from a minority that was unchecked and out of control. I've found that many people have a real issue with authority. I have absolutely no issue with authority. Ideally, authority is in place to make the decisions you aren't qualified to make. And sure, that's the ideal. It doesn't always work out that way. Corrupt people get into power. It'd be different if this was, like, a corrupt governmental official trying to put the kibosh on superheroes for his own personal gain. But it wasn't. This was Tony Stark, a superhero himself, subject to the same rules he was trying to put in place for everyone else, trying to do what was, honestly, the responsible and democratic thing to do. He had to go to extreme measures to do it, but this was a very extreme situation.

The real crux of Civil War wasn't the majority of the American people going along with Registration but "omg this is still an issue because at one point the majority of Americans supported slavery". It was the story of that kid getting killed because he just so happened to go to school that day, and there were irresponsible, dangerous people around who weren't being checked in any way, shape, or form. That was the real infringement on American liberty and freedom.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh BB. While I agree that the Civil War story could have been handled so that both sides had a point, Marvel failed as soon as they equated registration to the Patriot Act.

Well, shure dood. I mean, I would never argue with the fact that Marvel handled it poorly. ...Seriously. Handled it not well. But the issues, like, at their core, really appealed to me. That's why I can't dislike Civil War. They came up with a real moral quandary that's relevant to not just our time, but- I mean, people have been writing about this shit for like, ever. They really did fail it when they tied it to the Patriot Act, 'cause it's relevant to and issue that's much more basic and timeless than that.

I dunno, I really take comics seriously, but at the same time, I don't expect more than they are capable of giving, I guess. I think that's why Civil War's faults aren't a deal-breaker for me. I really did enjoy it. I wish I could have written on it. It's like the movie AI. Great fucking idea, poorly executed. Dammit, Spielberg. Dammit. The wonders I could have worked.

To be honest, I do think that anything that was really worth saying about registering a group in the Marvel universe was said in Days of Future past. I found Civil War to be a poor imitation. I do agree that it would have worked very well as a moral quandary if they hadn't immediately designated one side as bad guys, though.

I honestly haven't read Days of Future, so I'll have to pick it up. Civil War was the first big Marvel event I got really involved with, so I guess part of my affection and leniency is because of that.

And yeah, the designation of bad guys. It's frustrating for me, because it completely paralyzed the whole appeal and draw of the thing. It made it impossible not to be sure at all who you should side with. Now, if I argue for Tony, I'm just trying to start trouble for the sake of it. Or I'm a fascist, or I'm not American. They made it so easy to argue for Cap, when Tony really did have a point as well.

Well, I don't really like either of them so I wouldn't argue for them.

HOW CAN YOU NOT HAVE READ DAYS OF FUTURE PAST? IT IS SO MUCH BETTER AND MAKES THE POINT MUCH CLEARER! WE CAN'T EVEN ARGUE OVER THIS PROPERLY UNTIL YOU HAVE!

IF I TOLD YOU ONCE I TOLD YOU ONCE I AM GONNA BUY IT I HAVE GIFT CARDS

But seriously, I don't think you can really argue for registration until you've read it, since it shows the after-effects.

I will bear this in mind as I quest for it.

I can already see a bunch of issues that are gonna come up, even without reading. Isolation and segregation and persecution and all kinds of shitty shit. The registration issue's kind of like a Greek tragedy or something. All the characters do what they have to do, and it still comes out shitty, no matter how hard they try. ...I like Greek tragedies.

That was the real infringement on American liberty and freedom.

Uh, no, making someone register with the government because they might one day do something bad is the real infringement. Forcing people who have no desire to use their powers to register is the real infringement.

You: Also support the Draft Y/Y?

But what's the alternative? Just let things stay as they were? It was a system that obviously wasn't working. The school incident wasn't a one-time thing. Every comic I've ever read, buildings are getting destroyed, shit is getting demolished. And this is by the Avengers, the X-Men. The supposed good guys. How many more people with powers out there are significantly less responsible and morally sound than they are? Let's be realistic. Things needed to change.

Right, because it's totally like with the registration, that changed. How, exactly, would you change that? When you're fighting a bad guy with superpowers, shit is doing to get destroyed. It doesn't matter if you've registered and moved around and given permission to all the good guys. They're not the ones causing the majority of the damage. Suggesting so is just stupid.

It's suggesting they take responsibility for their actions just like everyone else. That they have someone to answer to just like everyone else. Cops damage property all the time. But they have someone to answer to for it. They aren't just ordinary citizens wearing masks, fighting bad guys. And because they're tied to the government, the government can step in and reimburse for damages.

And because I know this is automatically gonna lead to "so does anyone who has powers and wears a mask have to be registered, so what if the government starts ordering registered superheroes around, so are they on government payroll then", etc: the whole point of Civil War was that it was a shitty situation and there was no good solution. That's why it was interesting and human. There was no right side. Both of them had a point. Both of them were forced to take it too far. We'd be able to go back and forth making jab after jab on this all day because it's an issue that doesn't have a right answer, and that's why it was good. That's why I came out of it still really liking both Cap and Tony. I could just as easily argue your point, because I believe in its merits as well.

So it boils down to you being a shitty person! Okay!

...It seems I replied to this with my personal account.

...NO MATTER. NOW I CAN USE THE TONY ICON I WAS IMAGINING THIS WHOLE TIME.

Oh lawdie, wait. I'm being a creep and reading your other entries and it seems you do not like Cap. It seems we might need must comes to fisticuffs. ...Unless you just mean Ultimate Cap. In this case, you might be spared the sting of my snikt.

"But... they are brother and sister!". NO SHIT, CAPTAIN.

sry2say all Caps are boring and annoying as shit

Oh mannn, compadre. Honestly, I usually see Steve in the light of Tony, and for me, Steve's character is the perfect foil to Tony's. Other half of the ying-yang, etc. You simply need an all-optimistic idealist in a story with a character like Tony Stark. Also, for me personally, I was an annoying, Nietzsche-reading pessimist for most of my young life. Reading about someone like Captain America is a way for me to embrace hope and ideals and things that make me feel good inside without getting hooked on religion again. Steve Rogers is my safe outlet, when I'm jonesin' for that shit.

Also, fap fap fap! Steve Rogers!

lol so rong on the internet it's almost painful. Perfect idealism is boring as shit. Self-righteousness is annoying and a character always wanting to ~improve~ his friends because they could be ~so much better than who they are~ is insulting.

I mean, this is gonna come down to a matter of taste. It really does. I think I like Cap because I read comic books as an escape from the real world, which is gritty and dark and hopeless enough for me as it is. In fact, that's why I prefer Marvel to DC. I like well-rounded and realistic characters, sure. But I want characters that appeal to something better in me that I can't experience from anything else. There's no-one like Captain America in real life. But that's why I like him. Like I said before, comics are a kind of safe place for me to exercise my idealistic side without fear of repercussion. I don't find him annoying at all. shrug.jpg

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